You do get to choose another color.

"Some have said there is no subtlety to destruction. You know what? They’re dead.” -Jaya Ballard, task mage

That’s how it goes. Just pretend that it’s story circle, and not that it’s copy enchantment. That’ll help you with the CITP effects problems…

---

Current Decks:
UG Aggro
Mono-Green Turbo-Allosaurus!
Mono-Red BURN

RGD Draft: 25-7-2
RGD Sealed: ***Censored***

I might be worth mentioning that copy effects only get “As this comes into play” replacements or “When this comes into play” triggers when the copy actually comes into play.  This might seem obvious, but it does come up occasionally with stuff like Dimir Doppelganger.  Changing the ‘Ganger into something like Voice of All does not let you pick a color, so the Voice copy will have Protection from _______ (i.e. nothing).  And shifting into FTK doesn’t give you a free Fireblast, either.

Random Matt - 27 March 2006 11:43 AM

I might be worth mentioning that copy effects only get “As this comes into play” replacements or “When this comes into play” triggers when the copy actually comes into play.

partially correct.

“When this comes into play” is a trigger, that will go on the stack when it comes into play.  Obv.

“As this comes into play” is not a trigger, its a request for information during resolution.
Pithing Needle, Meddling Mage, Cranial Extraction, Cabal Therapy etc all have this or similar wording (in te case of spells over perms) they are not triggers, and do not pass priority, once someone names something, you missed your shot.

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i was wondering how sunforger and fire/ice interact, more specifically, if I unequip sunforger to fetch a card, can I get fire/ice and use the ice half, or may I only use fire half?

<---Chris Hidalgo
I play Natural Affinity like it’s goin’ out of style

Dilligaf - 27 March 2006 10:44 PM

Random Matt - 27 March 2006 11:43 AM

I might be worth mentioning that copy effects only get “As this comes into play” replacements or “When this comes into play” triggers when the copy actually comes into play.

partially correct.

“When this comes into play” is a trigger, that will go on the stack when it comes into play.  Obv.

“As this comes into play” is not a trigger, its a request for information during resolution.
Pithing Needle, Meddling Mage, Cranial Extraction, Cabal Therapy etc all have this or similar wording (in te case of spells over perms) they are not triggers, and do not pass priority, once someone names something, you missed your shot.

Why is this only partially correct?  I said that “As this comes into play...” effects are replacement effects, which is true.  Perhaps my wording was confusing; I didn’t intend to lump both together under triggered effects, since they are not.  However, neither of those abilities will work if a permanent that’s already in play becomes one of those things, which is my point.  Using Dimir Doppelganer to become a Meddling Mage doesn’t let you name a card because the Doppelganger is already in play.  Similarly, Mizzium Transreliquat copying a Pithing Needle won’t do anything, either.  On the other hand, Clone or Sculpting Steel will allow you to name a card when the Clone or Sculpting Steel first come into play.  Sorry if I was confusing in my wording there.

You can use the ice half - you are playing the card. The extra information in the gatherer says you choose modes, so I believe that’s similar to that. A more rules guru than me can back me up or correct me

Also with sunforger - You can pay Replicate costs, correct? Replicate is an additional cost, and Sunforger allows you to pay that.

I hope it’s true that every snowflake is unique, because I never want to see one like this again.

From the MTG official Site:

Q: I unattached Sunforger to get Gigadrowse and I replicate it four times. My opponent disagreed, saying Gigadrowse was played via Sunforger. Doesn’t Sunforger’s effect still constitute playing the spell, so wouldn’t replicate still be in effect? --Viet H.

A: Gigadrowse isn’t Red or White, so you’re out of luck with Sunforger.

*Extra*: If Sunforger goes looking for Pyromatics, you could play the spell for free and pay an extra 1R to replicate it. The Equipment covers the mana cost part, but you are playing the spell, so you can tack on the added replicate cost.

Q: I was just wondering how Sunforger’s effect would work with instants that have a kicker cost. Specifically, can I pay the kicker on Orim’s Thunder, since the converted mana cost of the card would only be 4? --Ben L.

A: Sunforger only cares if the card is a red or white instant with converted mana cost 4 or less. Kicker doesn’t affect a card’s converted mana cost. So Orim’s Thunder’s converted mana cost is always 3, regardless of whether kicker has been paid. When you play Orim’s Thunder using Sunforger’s effect, the mana cost is paid for you. You do have the option of paying the kicker as you play the Thunder if you have to spare.

*Extra*: You can even use Sunforger to play split cards like Fire/Ice. You can find Fire/Ice because of the Fire half, and when you play it, you can choose either half.

Of course, there are only a couple spells you can get this way: Leap of Flame and Pyromatics.

Of course, there are only a couple spells you can get this way: Leap of Flame and Pyromatics.

not if you have djinn illuminatus in play

some people would say if you have djin and sunforger in play you should have won already.
I say if you have djin and sunforger in play, maybe you’re not as interested in winning.

Kevin

“Wasn’t our plan just to get to 900 life and f***’em?”

Coldsnap Sealed: who cares
Coldsnap Draft: who cares

I thought so - wow, that’s nuts

Another question. If I play Natural Affinity at my opponent’s end of turn, does it last until my end of turn? I get “at end of turn” and “until end of turn” stuff mixed up. At the time I’m playing spells, it’s “at end of turn”, right? and the “until end of turn” is the cleanup part where people don’t get to play spells unless something triggered...?

lol I should just break out the comprehensive rules.

I hope it’s true that every snowflake is unique, because I never want to see one like this again.

"at” trigures during the end phase in which you can then play the spell afterwords and have it last.

“untill” ends when the turn ends.

Kiki-Jiki = At
Genjus = Untill

"Some have said there is no subtlety to destruction. You know what? They’re dead.” -Jaya Ballard, task mage

The words “at,” “when,” and “whenever” are the words that indicate a triggered abiltiy.  Thus “At end of turn” is a triggered ability that triggers at the beginning of the end phase.  The key to things like Ghostway, Skirk Alarmist, and Astral Slide doing “end of turn” tricks is that the controller of the ability would play the abilty after the game has already entered the end of turn step.  In otherwords, the game doesn’t “back up” to see if something just triggered, it simply waits until the next time it would be triggered (i.e. the next end of turn).  Think of this like my little Yosei/Greater Good trick: when I sacrifice Yosei to lock up lands during my opponent’s upkeep, they will still miss the next untap step because they already untapped this turn.

“Until end of turn” effects always (ok, outside of Unhinged’s Staying Power) wear off at end of turn during the cleanup step, while damage is simultaneously removed from all creatures.  If something happens to cause something to trigger, it goes on the stack and both players receive priority in turn before the turn goes into the cleanup step again.  But this is the only time the game re-checks a step to make sure everything is done.

Short answer: Natural Affinity is “until end of turn,” which means there’s no way to end the turn without the effect wearing off.

Well, even us rules gurus can’t be right all the time.[/false egotism]

At FNM this last week, the question of whether Silhana Ledgwalker can be blocked by Silhana Starfletcher came up at least a couple times.  I had read erroneously that the Starfletcher could NOT block the Ledgwalker, and reported this information to the players.

I was completely wrong.

Mark Beardsly also corrected me when the issue came up again, but I was unconvinced, as I disticntly recall having read the incorrect ruling on a well-known rules forum online, but have since been unable to find that ruling.

Which means it was either subsequently corrected/removed, or I just plain read it wrong.

Either way, I made a big mistake, and I’m really sorry to anyone who might have lost a game because of my error.  I also owe Mark an apology for being rude about my “right” answer, which I plan to proffer in person next time I see him.

EDIT: In case this was unclear, Silhana Ledgewalker CAN be blocked by creatures that can block as though they have flying.  This includes Selesnya Sagittars and Goliath Spider as well as the Starfletcher.

You might have been thinking of the old wording on the spider ability which was “... can block creatures with flying.” I believe that this older ability will not allow the creature to block Ledgewalkers, which is one of the reasons that they redid the wording on the ability a little while back.

Was Delger not around?  He had the same situation come up in a draft against Mark Lovil and we looked it up on the FAQ to make sure.  Bummer that it came up again.  Well, now everyone knows!